This series and Kendo

After learning Kendo for about 7 months now, I realize why this manga has such a bad reputation in Japan.

http://accessup.org/jmanga/7_Kurogane_28Haruto_20Ikezawa_20version_29/
http://en.accessup.org/emanga/7_Kurogane_28Haruto_20Ikezawa_20version_29/

I wrote a review on baka-updates recently on my thoughts on this series and a few things on how kendo is portrayed in this manga and how different it is from the actual sport:

http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=69367&perpage=10&page=1#comment94541

I'm not sure if any of you guys have been keeping up with the raws, ( http://www.dm5.com/manhua-chidaodeheitie/ ) but in the recent chapters, the author made a serious mistake in regards to kendo, to the point that it's offensive. I wrote the spoiler at the bottom of my baka-updates review for anyone interested.

Edited by Saphsin, 11 July 2012 - 02:54 AM.

At the same time, you're reading a manga here, not a piece of news about high school kendo in Japan. Even if it's a sports manga, you already have a teaching ghost right from chapter 1. So I find it hard to expect the author to be completely accurate about the sport he is using.

Just look at all the sport mangas and how many of them are really respectful of the sport they use, I think the list will be incredibly short compared to those who gives player superhuman abilities (just look at the current Jump series : Haikyuu!! or Kuroko no Basket... or at a lot of older series like Kenichi or Captain Tsubasa). You just can't be as exciting with a perfect description of a sport....

Edited by Belnal, 12 July 2012 - 09:04 AM.

At the same time, you're reading a manga here, not a piece of news about high school kendo in Japan. Even if it's a sports manga, you already have a teaching ghost right from chapter 1. So I find it hard to expect the author to be completely accurate about the sport he is using.

Supernatural elements add excitement and should not detract from the spirit of the sport. It's an enhancement and I dislike seeing it used as an excuse to ignore the basics/truth/something aaah words. I'd also like my entertainment to not misinform me. It actually IS nice when a manga has educational qualities to it. I'd love to understand kendo more but I learned more from Sapshin than Kurogane.

So, uh, my point is... Something.

Entertainment isn't always perfectly factual nor i doubt is this manga meant to be taken as an instruction manual.

At the same time, you're reading a manga here, not a piece of news about high school kendo in Japan. Even if it's a sports manga, you already have a teaching ghost right from chapter 1. So I find it hard to expect the author to be completely accurate about the sport he is using.

Just look at all the sport mangas and how many of them are really respectful of the sport they use, I think the list will be incredibly short compared to those who gives player superhuman abilities (just look at the current Jump series : Haikyuu!! or Kuroko no Basket... or at a lot of older series like Kenichi or Captain Tsubasa). You just can't be as exciting with a perfect description of a sport....

Entertainment isn't always perfectly factual nor i doubt is this manga meant to be taken as an instruction manual.

The only supernatural elements added here is really Kurogane's eyes and the fact that he's haunted by a ghost. Other than that, this series is really showing a normal kendo club in the everyday world of Japan. Same with Hikaru no Go. The series is portraying actual Go in real life, along with actual high school go clubs, national Go competitions, the road to becoming an Insei and so on. In the same way, the standard for kendo shown here is simply normal kendo like in the real world. It's not kendo in the magical world or kendo in the 23rd century. People who have no clue what real kendo is like would read this manga like people who have no clue about basketball would read Slam Dunk. My point is pretty straightforward in the fact that this manga is breaking so many rules of real kendo that it's ridiculous.

Also, series like Kuroke no Basket, Eyeshield 21, and Haikyuu don't really break too may rules of the actual sport per say, they just add elements that aren't really relevant in real life; like extra spices over the main course.

(but some of the element Kuroke no Basket adds, like animal instinct & "entering the Zone", are just so stupid in my opinion. So I actually don't really like that series all too much)

Edited by Saphsin, 12 July 2012 - 03:10 PM.

Hmmm, I'm glad I don't know enough about kendo to actually be offended by any inaccuracies. Frankly speaking, Eyeshield 21 wasn't always perfectly accurate or realistic about american football but it certainly didn't "offend" me. I enjoyed it and I enjoy Kurogane too.

Frankly speaking, Eyeshield 21 wasn't always perfectly accurate or realistic about american football but it certainly didn't "offend" me. I enjoyed it and I enjoy Kurogane too.

Yes, people who know the sport of American football very well point out mistakes that the author made about the sport. I'm not an expert on football but as an American, I've watched plenty of real games. But any of the mistakes the manga made in contrast to real American football didn't prevent me to enjoy the series. But Kurogane....just....badly represents kendo.

Edited by Saphsin, 12 July 2012 - 09:46 PM.

In all fairness Kendo is probably a lot more than just a "sport" to those who practice it or who have an association with the Kendo culture. Comparing it to other sports that don't have the long term historical and cultural significance that Kendo does.....

Yeah, if the mangaka has made mistakes great enough to draw the ire of Kendo enthusiasts and practitioners then he's probably cut his own throat. That's probably a pretty big group of potential readers to alienate.

http://weeklyjump.livejournal.com/

There's a reason why it's in last place......although to be fair, Jump's quality of manga has hit its worst these few years so I'm not even sure how Jump readers rate the magazine's series. (in fact, a Japanese friend of mine who reads WSJ "by subscribing to the magazine to be shipped overseas" says he hasn't been so bored reading it now since the past 10 years of reading it.)

Edited by Saphsin, 13 July 2012 - 01:20 AM.

O_O

wow, how the mighty have fallen.....

@Saphsin
I does cross my mind when seeing the shinai break. "That's impossible"
How about bamboo blade? It's another Kendo manga
That series is complete
How correct the portrayal of Kendo in that manga

@Saphsin
I does cross my mind when seeing the shinai break. "That's impossible"
How about bamboo blade? It's another Kendo manga
That series is complete
How correct the portrayal of Kendo in that manga

I've read Bamboo Blade and it seems to be pretty accurate.....(on accessup.org, it's within the top 100 in manga rankings with a rating of very good, meaning its reputation in Japan is quite good. I personally don't think it deserves anywhere near that rank though.) The only thing is that Bamboo Blade is closer to a slice-of-life comedy than a sports manga. You're not going to learn too much about kendo by reading it.

Yes, people who know the sport of American football very well point out mistakes that the author made about the sport. I'm not an expert on football but as an American, I've watched plenty of real games. But any of the mistakes the manga made in contrast to real American football didn't prevent me to enjoy the series. But Kurogane....just....badly represents kendo.

I got very annoyed at some points in Eyeshield 21 that were just ridiculous. I enjoyed the manga though, because I understand it's just a manga.

Ok I updated the review from the last time this thread was posted about some other stuff I noticed.

I wrote a review on baka-updates recently on my thoughts on this series and a few things on how kendo is portrayed in this manga and how different it is from the actual sport:

http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=69367&perpage=10&page=1#comment94541

I have a few problems with the post on mangaupdates.com. First, the point you made about someone going into a streetfighting stance messing up your opponents rhythm is not BS. I'm a practitioner of several styles of martial arts including kendo and when I face a difficult opponent I often go into an unorthodox stance that allows me to fight more comfortably and it happens alot among martial artists. The change in stance doesn't affect the opponent it affects the person who changed their stance, the fact that the opponent is thrown off by it is a side-effect that rarely occurs it's just that we increase the proficiency/efficiency of our movements.

Second, knowing how to use a shinai your first time holding one isn't anything special some people have an affinity for it. I mean my niece could use one perfectly the first time she picked it up.

Third, Kurogane uses a counter style so it doesn't matter that much if he is weak because he uses his opponents power to strike. How do I know this because I use a counter style too and I rarely use much force.

Finally, there are some kendo practitioners that fight like kumdo and it was already established that Oogami has enough stamina to fight like that and while it might not be practical it's not as if it can't be done so there was no reason for it to be there as a complaint.

Well now I'm interested...not that I've seen just lots and lots of kendo in manga/movie/and tv, but I've never seen it with more than one shinai.......I wonder how this development stacks up with the realistic representation of kendo that was being discussed?

Nito style isn´t that rare, because it looks cool a lot of people try to use it, don´t think that these guys are very good.. Nito is more recommended for higher dan grades, because it´s quite difficult to use 2 swords. Also no one in the Japanese or Korean national teams (the 2 best national teams) use nito, it´s simply too laborious. In the manga nito is shown quite realistic, people become nervous and don´t know how to react to this style, fighting againste it the first time.

Nito style isn´t that rare, because it looks cool a lot of people try to use it, don´t think that these guys are very good.. Nito is more recommended for higher dan grades, because it´s quite difficult to use 2 swords. Also no one in the Japanese or Korean national teams (the 2 best national teams) use nito, it´s simply too laborious. In the manga nito is shown quite realistic, people become nervous and don´t know how to react to this style, fighting againste it the first time.

So I guess that would mean an entire high school team using that style would seem pretty unrealistic to those who really follow Kendo, kind of like what Saphsin was saying was a big knock on this manga.

So I guess that would mean an entire high school team using that style would seem pretty unrealistic to those who really follow Kendo, kind of like what Saphsin was saying was a big knock on this manga.

There are a lot of unrealistic things in this manga ^^

There are a lot of unrealistic things in this manga ^^

Yeah, apparently so. Not really being any more familiar with kendo other than from popular culture I never realized that until the OP started this thread. I suppose given kendo's historical place in the Japanese culture it's not a surprise that this manga would draw some criticism from purists regarding its lack of realism and inaccuracies.