Batotos has one of the most censored forums I have visited.

That thread is a duplicate suggestion.

For the record, some of the mods on Batoto are people I worked with for over a year now whom I've come to trust.
The others are ones hired directly through this forum and had no previous connection or affiliation with them.

Well mhh said it was talked about before, rather then specifically saying it was a duplicate suggestion, also that was not the reason given for closing the thread, and if it was the reason, some kind of effort should have been made to point me to the other suggestion thread so I can post there. If that suggestion is so old that no one even knows where it is any more, then it sounds like it is time for a new thread.

Well them being your friends grumpy was the only explanation I could think of for how you allow them excess freedom to say (even when they are being insulting, admitted by yourself in PM) and do what they wish, that freedom you allow them includes allowing them to excessively curtail our freedom to speak freely as long as we aren't being offensive.

Edited by truepurple, 22 March 2012 - 04:55 AM.

I would not call these forums censored at all. Moderated? Yes, but not censored. If you look at forums like Mangafox, you can't even type Batoto, Mangareader, Japanzai, etc without the text turning into a bunch of *********. That is what I call censoring. The mods, in my opinion, do a very good job at keeping 100 topics on the exact same thing from popping up. They keep the trolling and flames to a minimum. They don't randomly lock threads that have actual discussion going on unless it degenerates into mudslinging and flies way off the topic.

I think it really depends on the boards you're on.

Spammy stuff should stay in spammy boards.

I've tried to redirect spammy threads or repeated threads on Comic discussion boards before.

@Souldrake
Blatantly putting people down is not keeping trolling and flaming to a minimal, it is contributing to it. I will get into that latter.

They don't randomly lock threads that have actual discussion going on unless it degenerates into mudslinging and flies way off the topic.

My first example on page 1 if you missed it, did not degenerate into mudslinging or get off topic.

But for now, here is a second example
http://www.batoto.net/forums/topic/682-janes-lack-of-muscle/ The conversation was very much on topic. yes there was some friction, but a proper solution to that was not to close down the thread. Instead of someone is being offensive, they should be addressed directly by mods, perhaps in PM. Grumpy himself admits to this being because of laziness, the solution of everything being to lock the thread, rather then address the problem.

Edited by truepurple, 22 March 2012 - 05:11 AM.

That thread is a duplicate suggestion.

For the record, some of the mods on Batoto are people I worked with for over a year now whom I've come to trust.
The others are ones hired directly through this forum and had no previous connection or affiliation with them.

I have a question about that. If you shutdown a thread because it is a duplicate then why not post a link to the original topic?

To be blunt, youre annoying. :I
you seem to start a thread and then attack everyone with a different opinion.
the threads have no purpose, therefore, and they get rid of them.
you started a thread on the main girl of green boys arm MUSCLE?
for real? thats like complaining a fiction book isnt realistic.

Edited by skydreamer707, 22 March 2012 - 05:14 AM.

Well, to summarise, it was an argument that wasn't going any where, kind of like the Halloween being a girl is bad thread on Mangafox.
It really goes into mudslinging and everyone just dropping it in the end.

dammit! thats a better way of putting it! *deletes post*

agreed with "person" above.

I have a question about that. If you shutdown a thread because it is a duplicate then why not post a link to the original topic?

Honest answer: Lazy. There's quite a lot in there and wordings are rarely the same to quickly find it. For example, the actual said topic is a bug, which is even listed in the "todo" stickied post. But, reading both opening topic won't really make you think they're the same thing, unless you know they're the same cause. The same issue has been raised quite numerous times. We don't really bother locking each time. But the derailing was what probably caused mhh to lock that specific one.

Other areas of the forum probably demands the linking more than others. But that's a suggestion forum. Give a suggestion to admin/mods, and it's in our hands now, or more literally brain. Even saying that it's a duplicate doesn't really add much benefit.

So it seems to me that, rather than being upset because Batoto is heavily censored, you're upset because mods aren't explaining things clearly enough for you? There's a pretty big difference between the two, though I can see how they might overlap. I disagree with the claim that this place is heavily censored, as do what seems to be the majority of people in this thread. But I haven't had much personal experience with any mods, so I wouldn't know about the latter. Especially since each mod is different, and you can't really look at the behavior of one and apply it to all the others.

But if that's what's really bothering you, maybe you should rephrase your complaint? The rest of us would understand you better if you did.

Now about that thread you linked. I think Grumpy explained it pretty well, but I'll tell you how I interpreted it anyway. The topic was basically arguing against unrealistic art in manga (which is already a highly subjective topic) and since every counter-argument was treated with hostility, it wasn't a good discussion environment. Just an argument thread. I wouldn't know where to draw the line about when such a thing becomes unacceptable, but thankfully that's not my job to do. Grumpy did the job just fine however, and I can't find anything to complain about. If you really wanted to continue discussing that topic, you could try making a new thread where people can express their feelings about realism in manga, and, you know, not try to force their opinions on others. Then everyone would win, right?

First off, tl;dr. Secondly, if by censorship you mean that Batoto seems to have a certain minimum requirement for post/thread quality... we're in agreement. Totally a "censorious fascist marxist dictatorship oligarchy regime thing" going on here, and thank goodness for that. Thirdly, with regards to freedom of speech, this does not translate into the right to say whatever you please. Freedom of speech is naturally curtailed depending upon the needs of the society. I will tell you why I think the thread in question should have been locked.

1. Duplicate topic.
2. Wandered almost immediately from the original post.
3. When a topic keeps getting "bumped", it makes it harder for those who have something to say to be heard. Imagine what it would be like if Forum Games and General Discussion were merged.
4. That was the Suggestions section, not "20 questions".

My first example on page 1 if you missed it, did not degenerate into mudslinging or get off topic.

See 4. You ever play those word association games? I think of it as a similar idea here. There may be a natural progression leading from post A to B, but the topic you end with certainly isn't the same as the topic you start with. This may be more acceptable in some boards than others, but (the way I see it) should definitely not be acceptable in suggestion threads. With regards to the second example... Goodness, that is over one year ago! Anywho, in that topic you yourself note the abrasive nature of your post (also you point out the subjective nature of the discussion a couple posts earlier), but chose to post it as is anyway because you were "pissed and busy". I will not go into details as it seems pointless to dredge up year-old wounds, suffice it to say, I think there was adequate reason to close that thread given the direction it was going.

The topic was basically arguing against unrealistic art in manga (which is already a highly subjective topic) and since every counter-argument was treated with hostility, it wasn't a good discussion environment.

Well, since you already said it... When I read that thread, I was thinking pretty much the same thing. A good discussion is one had between two pieces of putty, not putty and a jigsaw piece or two jigsaw pieces.

In the end, Souldrake has it spot on. What censorship? You are allowed to speak your mind and share your ideas here. All the mods ask for (and the community asks for, for that matter) is that you respect basic forum etiquette.

"Blatantly putting people down is not keeping trolling and flaming to a minimal, it is contributing to it. I will get into that latter."

Honestly, I'd prefer if we could just get into that now. No need to draw out this discussion un...necessarily.

Edited by 01011001, 22 March 2012 - 06:35 AM.

It amazes me how you insist on arguing about arguing.

Man, you are one dedicated troll. ill give you that.

Edited by skydreamer707, 22 March 2012 - 06:24 AM.

Having these forums moderated actually makes it a better experience for everyone since we don't have to worry about random inappropriate images popping up and scarring the innocent minds on this forum. They forums aren't the "most censored" in my opinion, in fact, we have a lot of freedom in talking about things just as long as we follow the rules and the topic posted/reply to. I think that the moderators are reasonable in what they lock and I understand that some people get frustrated that their topic gets locked but it's with a good intention.

In your second link, you verbally attacked Haruki. While you might not see it as verbally attacking her, Moderators will interpret that in a different way because not everyone sees things in the same perspective. Haruki was simply asking the question if the topic was really necessary to talk about and you interpret that as "attacking" you when you could have just ignored it but instead, you attacked her back. The thread turned into an argument thread and Batoto doesn't want nor need those so to prevent it from going on, Grumpy locked it. It's reasonable because as the administrator of Batoto, you want everyone to enjoy the site (from how I view it) and having argument threads all over the place will hinder that.

But the derailing was what probably caused mhh to lock that specific one.

There was no derailing. The thread was very much on topic at the moment it was closed.

Other areas of the forum probably demands the linking more than others. But that's a suggestion forum. Give a suggestion to admin/mods, and it's in our hands now, or more literally brain. Even saying that it's a duplicate doesn't really add much benefit.

The rest is a case being made for the suggestion, rather then the last word on the suggestion being that against it with no way to point out errors in logic or anything else. The thread was closed very fast too, I had no chance at all to fully make a case for the suggestion.

Well, to summarise, it was an argument that wasn't going any where, kind of like the Halloween being a girl is bad thread on Mangafox.
It really goes into mudslinging and everyone just dropping it in the end.

you started a thread on the main girl of green boys arm MUSCLE?
for real? thats like complaining a fiction book isnt realistic.

Where do you guys get off deciding what is a valid subject to discuss? The comic specific forums exist to discuss different aspects of said comic, I wanted to discuss that aspect. If you start closing down threads because you think a particular subject is silly or pointless, you are getting into the realm of subjective, arbitrary, censorship.

The topic was basically arguing against unrealistic art in manga (which is already a highly subjective topic)

Every opinion online is highly subjective, especially about something like a comic. So for you to say that is neither here nor there and certainly no reason to be hostile to the subject. BTW its a manhwa, not a manga.

So it seems to me that, rather than being upset because Batoto is heavily censored, you're upset because mods aren't explaining things clearly enough for you?

BZZZT! Totally wrong, I am upset because of heavy censorship. Sure the first example, if closed down for reasons of redundant thread becomes not a matter of censorship, but that was not the reason given. Anyway, if there is no second thread pointed to for me to put my opinions in there instead, even then it is a form of censorship.

and since every counter-argument was treated with hostility,

I don't know what your talking about, I didn't treat any responses with hostility, or are you talking about someone elses hostility?

If you really wanted to continue discussing that topic, you could try making a new thread

Last time I did that, the new thread was also locked for reasons of starting a thread with a subject that was the same as the old thread, (which brings the count to at least 4 threads I have created, that I can think of for the moment, that have been locked- plus I think at least one more on the old TC forum) and I was given a warning thing which reflects on my profile (even though I have no idea what it means/does, even though I asked grumpy directly). So if your thread is closed, the subject itself might be forbidden, but you never know since mods don't tell you.

where people can express their feelings about realism in manga, and, you know, not try to force their opinions on
Then everyone would win, right?

That is what I did, and I certainly didn't "force my opinion" on anyone, but it got censored. Anyway the subject wasn't about realism in general in manga, but most specifically about the way Janes muscles were depicted, sure the former comes into play into such a subject too, but it is a different subject matter.

Edited by truepurple, 22 March 2012 - 07:26 AM.

Im calling troll.

and #1 rule is "dont feed the troll" which i would advise everyone to just ignore him.

Edited by skydreamer707, 22 March 2012 - 07:30 AM.

Seconding that because OP has just passed personal insult threshold.

There are discussions and then there are just flame wars and spam.
You'd think someone who's been there for those things will recognise it.

Added:
I get off that I recognise minor mud slinging and expect it to get wilder resulting in quite a few injured parties.
While OP might not think he's insulting people, there's quite a few of us here that has mentioned that what we read felt offensive.

Moderation is to remove offensiveness and reduce damage.
I'm a strong protester against censorship in many many areas, online and offline.
There are places where censorship is so biased, it is unreasonable.
However the moderation on Batoto has been reasonable from what I have read.
Personally, I do not find this 'crusade' reasonable.

Perhaps OP prefers letting the thread die when people avoid it to avoid the conflict rather than having it locked.
But locking it prevent spam and trolls from further adding oil to the fire.
Relations were already getting stressed on that thread, it's valid for locking.

Edited by Hellion Twins, 22 March 2012 - 07:45 AM.

skydreamer707, please stop calling me a troll, it seems you are posting just to offend me and elicit a attack back from me, you should look up the definition of "troll" (not once, but twice now you posted the same kind of post for no apparent reason other then offending)

Edited by truepurple, 22 March 2012 - 07:37 AM.

lol... you really are a troll, dude.

Truepurple, just for the sake of my own amusement, do you think this thread warrants closing?

Im calling troll.
and #1 rule is "dont feed the troll" which i would advise everyone to just ignore him.

people->troll<->me

Edited by 01011001, 22 March 2012 - 07:43 AM.