Manga/Anime Demographic labels

Now, if you're an experienced otaku(or just perceptive) you'll know that the four main demographic groups are Shonen, Shoujo, Seinen and Josei. What do these tags mean? What do they entail?

This post sums it up a bit: http://www.basugasubakuhatsu.com/blog/2006/07/17/what-the-demographic-labels-shoujo-shonen-josei-and-seinen-mean-to-american-anime-and-manga-fans/

After reading it myself I became a bit confused. No, actually I was confused before it. After stumbling across Good Ending, searching for Manga tagged as Seinen, I believed it was a bit of a misplaced tag given the emotional dramafest of emotional cesspools of misunderstanding, did I mention it was emotional? I was even more confused when the tag was corrected and labeled as shonen. I mean, yes the story is about a boy in high school, but that's about as far as (I personally think) it relates to teenage boy.

Now my question for Batoto is, what do you think Seinen, Josei, Shoujo and Shonen is?

I go along with the older men/older women/young girls/young boys, respectively, but I don't think you should find it strange if a manga/anime of a different demographic interests you. After all, a good story is a good story.

Haven't checked the link, but from my understanding, these demographics separate work based on who it's supposedly geared towards, rather than what it strictly contains. In case of manga, this is usually determined by the actual magazine publishing the manga. For example, Weekly Shōnen Jump publishes Shōnen, while Ultra Jump publishes Seinen. Anything published from these two would be categorized by the publisher's perspective categories.

Another thing, in manga geared towards younger audience Hiragana is usually used along with the actual text, since young people find difficulty reading Kanji.

Edited by Katsuri, 15 March 2012 - 09:05 PM.

I find that the line between shonen and seinen is a bit blurry, for instance HunterXHunter and Claymore have dark elements and some gruesome content but they are considered shonen manga (for young males), and a certain level of content (such as visible nipples) sometimes don't drag manga into the seinen category.

Seinen and Josei have a bit more realism than Shonen and Shoujo. They're usually not just love and just action. They have depth. Of course not all are like that but that's how I look at it.

I think of hem as what they are: the target audience. I try not to associate any more meaning to it than that. It baffles me how many people try to argue that Lucky Star or K-On! are Shoujo, because they're cute and star young girls. Or rather, I understand where they're coming from, but it baffles me how so many people continue to argue that they "should" be Shoujo, even after someone explains to them that they're made for a mature male audience, marketed toward a mature male audience, and are thus Seinen.

Really guys, with these words there aren't any "should it be this" or "should it be that" quandaries. Demographic does not equal genre. You can find many overlaps of course, some themes more popular in manga for a certain demographic than in manga for another. But there is no rule stating Shounen manga are all over-the-top action stories, just like there is no rule stating all Seinen manga are dark and serious.

Seinen and Josei have a bit more realism than Shonen and Shoujo. They're usually not just love and just action. They have depth. Of course not all are like that but that's how I look at it.

I think of hem as what they are: the target audience. I try not to associate any more meaning to it than that. It baffles me how many people try to argue that Lucky Star or K-On! are Shoujo, because they're cute and star young girls. Or rather, I understand where they're coming from, but it baffles me how so many people continue to argue that they "should" be Shoujo, even after someone explains to them that they're made for a mature male audience, marketed toward a mature male audience, and are thus Seinen.

Really guys, with these words there aren't any "should it be this" or "should it be that" quandaries. Demographic does not equal genre. You can find many overlaps of course, some themes more popular in manga for a certain demographic than in manga for another. But there is no rule stating Shounen manga are all over-the-top action stories, just like there is no rule stating all Seinen manga are dark and serious.

^ what they said

shounen literally means 'young boy' and shoujo 'young girl'. Josei means 'woman' and seinen 'man'

So it's kinda in the name xD

Edited by °~°, 16 March 2012 - 12:32 AM.

I think of hem as what they are: the target audience. I try not to associate any more meaning to it than that. It baffles me how many people try to argue that Lucky Star or K-On! are Shoujo, because they're cute and star young girls. Or rather, I understand where they're coming from, but it baffles me how so many people continue to argue that they "should" be Shoujo, even after someone explains to them that they're made for a mature male audience, marketed toward a mature male audience, and are thus Seinen.

Really guys, with these words there aren't any "should it be this" or "should it be that" quandaries. Demographic does not equal genre. You can find many overlaps of course, some themes more popular in manga for a certain demographic than in manga for another. But there is no rule stating Shounen manga are all over-the-top action stories, just like there is no rule stating all Seinen manga are dark and serious.

Finally. What he said clarifies this discussion perfectly. It is and always was about the audience. It does not matter how the manga is drawn, what matters is the audience it is aiming for.

At least, this is MY opinion about the subject.

I think of hem as what they are: the target audience. I try not to associate any more meaning to it than that. It baffles me how many people try to argue that Lucky Star or K-On! are Shoujo, because they're cute and star young girls. Or rather, I understand where they're coming from, but it baffles me how so many people continue to argue that they "should" be Shoujo, even after someone explains to them that they're made for a mature male audience, marketed toward a mature male audience, and are thus Seinen.

Shonen and Shoujo really differ in art too, which is a lot more significant than you think. I personally can't stand shojo art (personally I think it's horrible, for my own personal preference) but apparently that's because I'm really used to shonen manga art. I have a Japanese friend who's sister and mother claim that they can't stand reading shonen manga art that aren't really clean (like One Piece for an example) after getting used to shojo manga art.

I'd say that rather than the target audience, the better phrase would be 'the target audience of the magazine in which the manga is published in.'
Because of that, there may be shounen-like elements in a shoujo manga, and vice versa.
A shounen-like manga in a seinen magazine or a seinen-like manga in a shounen magazine wouldn't be impossible either. (read bakuman.)

I'd say that rather than the target audience, the better phrase would be 'the target audience of the magazine in which the manga is published in.'
Because of that, there may be shounen-like elements in a shoujo manga, and vice versa.
A shounen-like manga in a seinen magazine or a seinen-like manga in a shounen magazine wouldn't be impossible either. (read bakuman.)

while the majority of manga are, not all are published in magazines i always dislike this assumption >.< a good example is doujinshi

while the majority of manga are, not all are published in magazines i always dislike this assumption >.< a good example is doujinshi

You've got a good point there. With (non-H) doujinshi it's very difficult to give them a Shounen/Shoujo/Seinen/Josei label. I'd assume they're mostly targeted at adults, since Comiket (and any other doujin events) is mostly attended by adults. But I'm guessing they don't have nearly as much to worry about in regards to exact demographics as a manga magazine would, so I'm sure everything is much more lax. I've never really thought of doujinshi demographics before, so it's certainly interesting to consider.

uh, I was talking about manga, like, published manga (by companies), not doujinshi. ;&lt;

edit: and majority of the manga here are published by publishing companies and are not doujins.

Edited by soranokira, 16 March 2012 - 12:43 PM.

uh, I was talking about manga, like, published manga (by companies), not doujinshi. ;&lt;

edit: and majority of the manga here are published by publishing companies and are not doujins.

Well yeah, and you weren't wrong or anything. We were just discussing the manga that aren't so easy to categorize. Take for instance, Onani Master Kurosawa. I'm pretty sure that's a doujinshi, and it's pretty obviously not targeted at kids or anything, so I believe that the label of 'Seinen' is more or less correct. But we couldn't make that assumption based on the magazine it ran in since it doesn't have one...

uh, I was talking about manga, like, published manga (by companies), not doujinshi. ;&lt;

edit: and majority of the manga here are published by publishing companies and are not doujins.

There are also a couple non-magazine published works you know... most of them would be oneshot collections

http://www.batoto.net/forums/topic/2480-shingeki-no-kyojin-shounenseinen/

I think this topic covers it pretty well.

I full heartedly agree that the target audience, rather than the actual content, is what's important when labeling a manga shounen/seinen/shoujo/josei. Which is where the confusion arises for certain manga(my example was with Good Ending because that's pretty much where my uncertainties arised) but this can be applied to any manga really. While the magazine they are published in(for the one's that are) determine their classification, I don't think it is always correct and should be followed to the letter. Regarding the thread Saphsin linked to, I'm more inclined to Starbuck's reasoning because it makes more sense.

I'm also aware that elements attributed to each group are not exclusive to that single group (i.e. seinien-dark/serious, shonen-light/happy) and a healthy mix is what keeps each story interesting, but there are overall tones which should be the deciding factor on whether or not to classify a certain manga.

Well what is the importance if the classification is correct or not since most of us read the 4 categories. Adults which lists is mainly composed of shonen/shoujo raised your hand ! I think we are the majority here. Like lot's of adult have read the Harry potter, adults and girls read shonen because they are easy to read and people love fantastic.
For proof, there are a lot of seinen which scenario has all the trope of shonen and are only seinen because the characters drink alcohol (Kami no Shizuku is a good example).

But maybe the classification is more important in Japan than for us. You know how Japan is strict wrt social behaviour. I have heard many time that it is not well seen for an adult to read a manga outside its target demographic. But that is just outside appearance, at home you can do what you want.

Well, it's also useful for people looking for manga with certain themes. If you want to read a dramatic romance instead of a harem romantic comedy, you'd be better off looking for a Shoujo manga than a Shounen. I mean, yes, it's easier to use a search feature that can include/exclude things like "comedy", "harem", or "drama", allowing you to find stories like that no matter what demographic they were written for, but in a broad sense demographics can be quite useful. Plus, when shopping in a store like Kinokuniya, all the Shoujo manga are in one place and all the Shounen are in another. That way you won't usually have to wade through a pile of romance manga to find your fantasy adventure manga. There aren't any specific rules about it, but there are definitely common themes within demographics.

And as for the "reading outside your demographic" thing, I think that applies outside of Japan as well. A grown man would be hesitant to be caught reading some sappy teen romance novel in public, right? And I've had experience with that myself, reading things like Love Hina and Negima! and having people comment, "Aren't those books for guys?" and from that they jump to the conclusion that I'm a complete pervert...

Well, it's also useful for people looking for manga with certain themes. If you want to read a dramatic romance instead of a harem romantic comedy, you'd be better off looking for a Shoujo manga than a Shounen. I mean, yes, it's easier to use a search feature that can include/exclude things like "comedy", "harem", or "drama", allowing you to find stories like that no matter what demographic they were written for, but in a broad sense demographics can be quite useful. Plus, when shopping in a store like Kinokuniya, all the Shoujo manga are in one place and all the Shounen are in another. That way you won't usually have to wade through a pile of romance manga to find your fantasy adventure manga. There aren't any specific rules about it, but there are definitely common themes within demographics.

And as for the "reading outside your demographic" thing, I think that applies outside of Japan as well. A grown man would be hesitant to be caught reading some sappy teen romance novel in public, right? And I've had experience with that myself, reading things like Love Hina and Negima! and having people comment, "Aren't those books for guys?" and from that they jump to the conclusion that I'm a complete pervert...

Eh well, in my culture reading manga or watching at all is pretty weird so I'm not within the "normal" parameters per se. Within the group that I know that is interested in it though, there are clear cut differences and I make sure I discuss certain types of manga with certain people rather than be completely open about it. It's really just how people view you and, for example, reading a girly manga when you're a guy clashes with your image and people see you differently. Which is why demographics are actually pretty important

And as for the "reading outside your demographic" thing, I think that applies outside of Japan as well. A grown man would be hesitant to be caught reading some sappy teen romance novel in public, right? And I've had experience with that myself, reading things like Love Hina and Negima! and having people comment, "Aren't those books for guys?" and from that they jump to the conclusion that I'm a complete pervert...

Yeah, my family looks at the books I own, almost none of which can be considered 'girly' lul

and the librarians lmao. When they see what appears to be an 11 year old borrowing the dark books I do