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Is there a point where No means No..?

Started by djason1988, Mar 04 2012 07:27 PM

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69 replies to this topic

    Potato

  • LocationGermany
#21
It's only rape if you couldn't satisfy the girl, because then she starts complaining!

Posted 06 March 2012 - 06:33 PM

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    Potato Spud

  • LocationAuckland, New Zealand
#22
To all those saying these theories can't apply to real life, all I can say is:

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:22 AM

    Russet Potato

  • LocationCheck Rivendell, or Vorbarr Sultana, or Adrilankha. No? Try Vancouver.
#23

The way I see it there are different kinds of no, There are no, No, NO, NO!, NOOOOO!!!!
From my experience, they can all be turned into yes given enough time and right methods (ugh the last one took me 5 years to break!).

While we don't lose our capability to think, being horny starts changing the way we see things... red starts looking pinkish... we find justifications to break strict moral codes.... etc etc.

Hm. You, sir, give the distinct impression of wishing to be taken for a cad and a bounder.

Edited by Purple Library Guy, 08 March 2012 - 11:30 PM.

Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:29 PM

    Potato Spud

#24

Hm. You, sir, give the distinct impression of wishing to be taken for a cad and a bounder.


Not my intention by any means. Without getting into any details, there are many rejections that can be overcome with persistence, time and proper methods. As for the effects of being horny, well... there are quite a bit of stories about the objects women insert... and the weird holes males insert their object...

Posted 09 March 2012 - 03:17 AM

    Russet Potato

  • LocationNorth Carolina, USA
#25
I recognize the arguments and points people are using here but he's essentially being forced by his aunt to make a harem like in Genji Monogatari, right? I think that's enough out of the norm that things aren't going to proceed normally. (I am not saying it's okay for guys to force themselves on girls who say no, but honestly I prefer the unreality of making a harem here to the reality of being hated and alienated in reality, in similar circumstances)

Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:39 AM

"This statement is not true."

    Potato Spud

#26
So in essence you could never have sex with a Tsunuder character as they will always say no. I don't want it. Stop. ect. The fact is she stopped him quite well with the "NO" bad dog approach used earlier. If she wanted to stop him she could, shes proven that. The real point here is she hasn't stopped him and shes beginning to question why she even thinks she wants him to stop. People don't mean what they say when there horny or drunk ect. That's why hard play requires the use of a safeword. Not saying she needed a safe word (who would) but the idea that people can say all sorts of things when there horny or other wise compromised. Sure she said No stop, but as this is written rather than voiced we have no idea the tone of voice she said no in. My gut plus the panels so far leads me to believe it was in a whimperly fashion. "NO STOP" said angerly vs "NO STOP" said passionately vs "NO STOP" said deadpan all sound completely different but are all written as NO STOP.

Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:19 AM

    Potato

  • Locationnyc
#27
this is the type of intellectual debate i enjoy, kudos to you all for participating

Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:43 AM

The mark of greatness is when everything before you is obsolete and everything after you bears your mark
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    Russet Potato

  • LocationNorth Carolina, USA
#28
I guess to elaborate: the kind of guy who's going to respect boundaries and never come on strongly seems less likely to get a harem, or am I mistaken?

Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:47 AM

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    Potato Spud

#29
As person who has had to take about dozen mandatory classes on the subject of rape, sexual harassment, and sexual abuse because of my job at the time. As I can not speak on the definition of rape in Japan, I can comment some what on how it works for the most part in the US. In a lot of cases you do not need to give a verbal "NO" the act of rejection ie pushing away, turning away from kiss, etc... Will also you get you in legal troubles. We also get classes in how to see the signals and how to respond to them. One of the newer entries in to the classes is how say no and also why not to say no if you are playing hard to get.

By my standards he is WAY out of bounds.

On the other hand by personal experience, when I was much younger, the only way to get experience with some people was to see how far you could push. Looking back it was dumb thing to do granted but I didn't have the knowledge I do now.

Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

    Potato Sprout

#30

I guess to elaborate: the kind of guy who's going to respect boundaries and never come on strongly seems less likely to get a harem, or am I mistaken?


Even worse, forever alone. ;)

Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:08 PM

    Potato Sprout

#31
lol, if this manga was at all realistic this guy would be on his way to prison for rape, even in Japan (hell especially in Japan, despite what you see in their hentai rape is actually serious shit over there).

Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:22 PM

    Potato Spud

#32
Up until chapter 23 I was uncomfortable with the whole thing, seemed much too far and 24 pushed me over the edge, then completely pisses me off at the end >.<
Her though bubble said "I need to shake him off, but can't muster any strength" then later he's thinking "her resistance weakened" in real life this is totally sexual assult... then she turns around at the end and is completely into it. This kind of manga scene kinda pisses me off because the way I've read it so far it seemed more like she was saying "NO" in a definite way not a pleasure/moaning way. Oddly I was actually cheering for this too work out and them end up having sex, but I just really didn't like the way it played out.

This whole event so far just felt way too rapey to me. You say no but your body says yes = rape think, its still no.
Pretty sure the definition of rape is having sex with someone against their consent, but I guess he got that now <_< I just wish it happened differently.
So I guess overall it's not rape anymore? She's consenting now... Just really sketchy...

Edited by Bobby, 15 March 2012 - 06:16 PM.

Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:14 PM

    Potato Spud

#33

This whole event so far just felt way too rapey to me. You say no but your body says yes = rape think, its still no.
Pretty sure the definition of rape is having sex with someone against their consent, but I guess he got that now <_< I just wish it happened differently.
So I guess overall it's not rape anymore? She's consenting now... Just really sketchy...


In fact it can still be rape legally, but this is manga :mellow:

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:17 PM

    Potato

#34
Funny thing about france.. According to their laws..
"Any act of sexual penetration, whatever its nature, committed against another person by violence, constraint, threat or surprise, is rape."

So no surprise butt secks for frenchies -.-

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

    Potato Sprout

#35
I totally dont get the point of this whole arguement. In mangas and porn over there in the east IT'S COMMON. Chicks always say no, even if they want it (like someone else said it above). Thats the main reason I avoid eastern pornm coz' that pisses me off (with that freaking mosaic shit, srsly its 2012!!!) and I rly want to headbang my screen. All in all, theres no reason to argue about this, since its always like this in this kind of manga...

PS: also, this is JUST A MANGA!

Edited by Veres László, 15 March 2012 - 08:20 PM.

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:14 PM

    Russet Potato

  • LocationNorth Carolina, USA
#36

I totally dont get the point of this whole arguement. In mangas and porn over there in the east IT'S COMMON. Chicks always say no, even if they want it (like someone else said it above). Thats the main reason I avoid eastern pornm coz' that pisses me off (with that freaking mosaic shit, srsly its 2012!!!) and I rly want to headbang my screen. All in all, theres no reason to argue about this, since its always like this in this kind of manga...

PS: also, this is JUST A MANGA!


I normally rally against the "it's just a [Insert Here], don't give it any thought!" but I think in this case it can be argued with a different thought process, namely that we're looking into somewhat unrealistic(just going off of my life, anyway, not that I'd mind a harem) circumstances so the suspension-of-disbelief comes into play and we can't rightfully demand that everything progress as if it were a totally realistic situation.

I have also noticed 1) they always say no, for some reason even if there aren't even any thoughts of rejection the word just escapes their mouths... *ahem* 2) indeed, mosaics are pretty lame : / censorship ftl.

Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:24 PM

"This statement is not true."

    Potato

#37
Don't diss mozaic!!! You can kinda make stuff up...

Better then some black bar!

And about the "its only a manga"... doesn't mean you can't discuss about the theme..
Also why did you say its only a manga, AFTER having posted your oppinion on a discussion forum about the manga..

You can just tell that to yourself.. something like "tsc morons, discussing about something thats not even real" and move on to your important business whatever..

Yet, you come, post, give a half ass argument without any support, and pull a " its a manga.. " at the end, are you an IDIOT?

Edited by Irecinius, 16 March 2012 - 02:17 AM.

Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:11 AM

    Potato Sprout

  • LocationWarsaw, Poland
#38
In real life it's rape.

In borderline-h it's a legit way to getting a girl horny.

Don't discuss manga using real life examples, use examples from other ecchi/hentai mangas to prove your point. I, for example, can give you hundreds of examples from other borderline-h or hentais where rape is a way to submit a girl. After all most NTR hentai work that way, there are also many hentai labeled as "forced" which end up with what can be called "Hentai Stockholm syntrome". :D Honestly, I'd prefer if this manga was less hentai and more ecchi, because the plot is very good and excess of sex may lead to a worse story.

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:42 AM

Beliefs are what divide people, doubts unite them.

    Russet Potato

  • LocationNorth Carolina, USA
#39

And about the "its only a manga"... doesn't mean you can't discuss about the theme..
Also why did you say its only a manga, AFTER having posted your oppinion on a discussion forum about the manga..

You can just tell that to yourself.. something like "tsc morons, discussing about something thats not even real" and move on to your important business whatever..

Yet, you come, post, give a half ass argument without any support, and pull a " its a manga.. " at the end, are you an IDIOT?


That's one of the many reasons I dislike the argument, it comes off as kind of insincere and pointless.

Honestly, I'd prefer if this manga was less hentai and more ecchi, because the plot is very good and excess of sex may lead to a worse story.


I don't think it's ever going to get into genuine hentai, but this is definitely on the more sexually-oriented side of the spectrum for ecchi, and I don't think I mind too much.

Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:56 AM

"This statement is not true."

    Potato Sprout

#40

I have also noticed 1) they always say no, for some reason even if there aren't even any thoughts of rejection the word just escapes their mouths... *ahem* 2) indeed, mosaics are pretty lame : / censorship ftl.

Number one might be because of the cultural view of "sex" as a whole over there, or what they're trying to project the cultural view as.

Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

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