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Tired of seeing incorrect "half Japanese"

Started by Gentleman, Feb 25 2012 08:37 PM
half japanese gangster yakuza wrong plot stereotype foreigner transfer student

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83 replies to this topic

    Potato Spud

  • LocationPreferably a wing-backed chair.
#1
Kirisaki Chitoge <- moronically wrong, gentically wrong, incorrectly plot devised

Unfortunately it seems to be a pretty common occurrance in manga to have a "half Japanses with blonde hair and blue eyes. This is extremely irritating due to the genetic inability of that scenario. A half would not have blue eyes, but rather brown/black that are the dominant trait held by both sides of the genome of the Japanese parent. Blue eyes are recessive, so they would be over-ridden by the dominant brown gene. This is also the same for the pure blonde hair that she has. IT WOULD NEVER HAPPEN. Even with the numerous genes that combine for hair color, pure blond not only is impossible, but so is anything lighter than a dark brown. (I do acknowledge the polygene sets allowing for the blonde gene to lighten black hair to a dark brown)

The only way she could have blonde hair would be in early childhood during the common expression of the blonde gene in a (blonde/(brown or black)) pairing. But by her age, it is 100% impossible for her as a half Japanese to have natural pure blonde hair.

For blue eyes I will admit there is a slight possiblity , but that depends on a drifting of the blue eye gene from main land china to japan, where it occasionaly surfaces without european blood due to inheritance from an ancestor who came to asia thousands of years ago who mutated that gene. It could survive still showning the dominant brown gene, and end up in her mother who would have brown eyes, but with her father who has blue eyes or brown eyes with the soame (blue/brown gene) pair. Either way at most with these conditions fufuilled, ther is a 50%-25% chance of her having blue eyes, and that is AFTER winning lottery like odds to get that gene in the first place on her mothers side. STILL Whenever the blue eyed gene would show itself in asia (blue/blue), it was common considered of supernatural(sorcery) indication and the posessor was killed, eliminating a double holder of that gene not of european blood. That means those lottery like odds are even worse due to elimination of gentic carriers/expressors.


No matter what though, IT IS GENETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER TO BE A NATURAL BLONDE AT HER AGE
ASIAN+ (adult) BLONDE DOES NOT EVER = (adult) BLONDE. EVER.
** the adult tag is also meant to include puberty and up years.

I really dislike this tedndency by manga authors (If you can't tell)

Edited by Gentleman, 03 April 2012 - 01:10 AM.

Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:37 PM

    Global Moderator

#2
Still, it's somewhat more realistic than green, purple, or pink hair.

Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:53 PM

    Couch Potato

  • Locationfuttocking away~
#3
You reminded me of this xD http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3060907/Black-parents-give-birth-to-white-baby.html

Stereotypes are stereotypes, incorrect as they are :/ (and for the most part, I dislike them too :P)

Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:26 PM

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fut-tock [fuht-uhthinsp.pngthinsp.pngk]

noun 

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    Potato Spud

  • LocationPreferably a wing-backed chair.
#4
KidCongo -at least the blue or green hair would be fictional, the blonde hair is "factual" but actually fake.



kishuke - Nice link, that type of recessiveness is exatly what I meant in terms of the blue eyes gene in asia.(but for the link is skin)

By the way should say this: This thread is not limited to one manga series, it applies in general.



01011001 - "Impossible? Albinism. 'Nuff said. :P"
No that's not blonde.

inzaratha - This whole thread is based off of the concept of halfs being an incorrect generalization. African American crosses are not reliable do to the genetic history of such families. Most can't show their families as of not having an ancestor who was european due to dark skin tone domminace. I never said THOSE were impossible nor improbable. I said that a half-Japanese would not have blonde hair or blue eyes, discounting those extended circumstances originally listed.

irecinius - Nice link, completely supports my point.

Saphsin - Thank you, EXACTLY my point. she is pure blonde. That would: Never. Happen.

Ultimately she shouldn't be blonde. Blue eyes, better chances of winning the lottery. So, none of those either due to prior listed reasoning.

Final Note: For all you who have tanken the time, or will take the time to support you opinion with coherent explanation or links, thank you.

Edited by Gentleman, 03 April 2012 - 12:59 AM.

Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:30 AM

    Potato Sprout

#5
Oh, another case of the elusive manga gene. It does wonders to hair and eye colours.

But really... What did you expect? Even if they're 100% Caucasian, mangakas (and perhaps the majority of Japanese pop culture) will almost always depict them as blonde with blue eyes. If not blue eyes, then green eyes are acceptable too... just barely. Perhaps a large nose and pronounced chin can compensate for those eyes. Meh, it's just one of the many things that mankind as a whole knows is not true, but society just seem to forget for convenience's sake. Like how ostriches hide their heads in the ground when scared. All we can really do is roll our eyes and be glad that at least it's not really putting anyone down like conventional racist misconceptions

Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:21 PM

    Potato Spud

#6
i am pretty sure a majority of mangaka know this, its just an excuse to put a foreigner in the story lol. its like the thing where they say westerners greet with a kiss, an excuse to have a kiss scene etc etc.

Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:33 PM

    Potato Spud

  • Location....good question.....
#7
Genetics is a vast and curious science to be sure; but I'm almost certain that this theme exists to allow a character to be declared as foreign/mixed without clashing horribly with the artist's style. I've seen cases where physical features like lips, eyes, and face shapes have been made excessively different/exaggerated to make foreign characters distinct and it never works well. It's generally unpleasant at best sadly, so blond/blue tends to be the simpler and more aesthetically tolerable option between the two.

That said, while golden blonde is genuinely unrealistic when mixing it's not actually impossible (though statistically improbable) and some fairly common outcomes range from rose-blond to chestnut colored hair. Hazel and green are more likely to pop up than blue eyes in such mixes, but to be clear, there are many MANY different variations of the genes that form together to form eye and hair colors (especially eye) and there are even cases of recessive types of brown (submissive to certain types of superior blue or gray). I actually know a woman with blue eyes who has two brown-eyed biological parents (test-proven) and her brother has hazel. She's actually what prompted me to look into it a bit.

Anyways that's not too important, I think it's far more likely mangakas' are doing it to make life easier than them all being brilliant geneticists that somehow found a way to make it work.

Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

    Potato

#8
Bottom line - the mangaka didn't create Chitoge Kirisaki to be a perfect sample for a biology class to study. Blonde hair & blue eyes was the easiest way to make her stand out as a foreigner, no matter how you look at it.

Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:16 AM

    Potato

#9
I'm not sure how it goes on asia.. but this is what happened TO ME..

In what? 5th grade I figured something out.. that I might not be my parents kids... that I might have been adopted.. well me and my sister to be exact..
Was it when I learned of genetics..

How its possible that from my mom that is 100% brazilian, with Black curled hair, brown eyes.. and my father a green eyed italian with blond straight hair.
Have TWO kids, that are blond with green eyes?

except for my grandfather being blond green eyed.. everyone else had black hair..
Like Inumori said, its improbable but NOT impossible

BB - bb  | Bb  --- Bb
   \/			  \/
  Bb ----	  Bb
		 \/
		 Bb ----------- bb
				 \/
		   bb -- bb!!!!

Thats it my freakin genetic lucky tree, with some other ressessive traits to boot, it goes back to my great grandmother having green eyes, blue hair, and my great great grandfather having that too..
Yet I consider myself Half-Itallian, half brazillian..
NOT 1/16th german.. lol

Ow yes, what if her mom is also half japanese wouldn't that make things even easier?
we never saw her anyway...

You are just assuming that from the mother side they are PURE Japaneses..

Edited by Irecinius, 29 February 2012 - 12:31 AM.

Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:22 AM

    Russet Potato

  • LocationIn your ear.
#10
http://anthro.paloma...el/mendel_3.htm

Ow yes, what if her mom is also half japanese wouldn't that make things even easier?
we never saw her anyway...

You are just assuming that from the mother side they are PURE Japaneses..

I think if the mother was half, then that would make them quarter...? but doesn't really matter. As has been pointed out, it is not really done to be genetically accurate. It is done to distinguish them as foreign or the descendant of someone foreign. In any case, with regards to the genetics, I'm sure there's plenty of manga where parents give birth to a nonsensical child (just can't think of any). If you're looking for geneticists, try elsewhere. :P

°~° - Nice link, that type of recessiveness is exatly what I meant in terms of the blue eyes gene in asia.(but for the link is skin)

Link actually addresses both skin and hair, but focuses more on the former. A reminder that people still do win the lottery.

No matter what though, IT IS GENETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR HER TO BE A NATURAL BLONDE AT HER AGE
ASIAN+ (adult) BLONDE DOES NOT EVER = (adult) BLONDE. EVER.


Impossible? Albinism. 'Nuff said. :P

Edited by 0100111101000111, 05 March 2012 - 06:21 AM.

Posted 05 March 2012 - 06:17 AM

Looks like a duck? Tastes like a duck? Walks like a duck? It's a panda! :batoto_010:
...
oh darn.

    Baked Potato

#11
I was going to point out this out at some time but I guess everyone just covered everything first.....
yeah I'm quite sure anyone who studied at least middle-school level of Mendelian genetics would understand how someone with half-Japanese genes would almost never turn out with blond hair and blue eyes. It would be more helpful if the author mentioned that one of her parents is half Japanese or that both grew up in Japan rather than setting up a false model, but people tend to miss details when reading comics....it's best not to get too hyped up about it unless it's something big.

Posted 06 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

132655097031.gifdS4M3.gif?1?2478

"Once you label me you negate me." - Soren Kierkegaard

    Potato Spud

  • Locationdepths of hell - pbly
#12
Y'know people.. I'm quite astounded to see such a dedicated debate over genetics in relation to manga. (to be fair, I got myself in a discussion on physics w.r.t MSN)

I thought it more or less common knowledge, that the depictions of 'mixed' people and/or foreigners are more often than not based on stereotypes just so that everybody recognizes them.

On a general note: nothing is impossible (at least w.r.t. the future)! It is at most improbable.

Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:12 PM

There are two types of people in this world, good and bad. The good
sleep better, but the bad seem to enjoy the waking hours much more.
-- Woody Allen

    Potato Spud

  • LocationHUEHUE BR?
#13
Why bother with this?

Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:16 PM

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    Baked Potato

#14
The problem is that many times of manga aren't entertaining if you don't breach physics.
But something like not following simple law of genetics can be blamed on the author as an error.

Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:22 PM

132655097031.gifdS4M3.gif?1?2478

"Once you label me you negate me." - Soren Kierkegaard

    Potato Spud

#15
the only real reasons i can see, why they would draw are twofold;

1. to the Japanese a mostly monogamous people, Blond hair and blue eyes, draws attention to that character makes them look more unique, than the rest of the characters that have the same hair and eye's.
2. takes less imagination to see that no coloring means blond hair and thus easier on the details.

alos if you Stay After Me, you'll see that not all mangas have their half Japanese characters with blond hair.

Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:12 AM

    Russet Potato

  • LocationArizona (or somewhere in the forest riding a unicorn)
#16
That is just not true - there are even twins who are half black and half white where one is looks white and one looks black. I also know blonds who have a black father. Many halfs also have light green eyes. And Asians would be more likely to have more of this combination than Africans one would think. It is very odd but it really does happen. So please don't make these generalizations...
Here are a bunch of examples...

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/black-white-twins.html

http://www.snopes.com/photos/people/mixedtwins.asp

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/sep/24/twins-black-white

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1297468/Two-million-black-white-twins-celebrate-birthday.html

ww.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2082429/Mixed-race-couple-Dean-Durrant-and-Alison-Spooner-celebrate-after-having-a-second-set-of-black-and-white-twins.html

Edited by inzaratha, 09 March 2012 - 07:16 AM.

Posted 09 March 2012 - 06:47 AM

http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/inzaratha
current reading http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/inzaratha&status=1&order=0 completed http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/inzaratha&status=2&order=0
http://inzaratha.deviantart.com/gallery/

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~Until Death Do Us Part~

    Potato Sprout

#17
I saw similar post like this with a wrong detail in the manga or rather saying it was unrealistic in terms of law of science such like this would be possible in the real world such things happens why not in manga? well maybe the author in nisekoi was thinking a miracle happened made her like this way? there is a such possibility it would happen in real world we don't have to wait to such event to happen just to make out of it the author just grab the possibility it would happen someday but i get the point of TS he was just being realistic who base on actual proof and hypothesis :D

Edited by Algiz, 09 March 2012 - 12:44 PM.

Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:41 PM

    Potato

#18

think if the mother was half, then that would make them quarter...?

What a kid that was born in japan from two 1/2 japanese and a 1/4 japanese be called??
I'm 1/8 japanese? or I'm Japanese? More of a question, when people reset the count?
If was to be anal, I have Italian, Polish, French, German, Portuguese, Spanish, Native Brazilian(indian) blood on me..

I picked my whole life 1/2 italian 1/2 german... cuz sounded nicer to throw that.. so even if the kid IS saying she is "haf japanese" maybe she is a kid from another " half japanese" but they got their pride they aint saying "im just a tad japanese.. lol"
I know cuz they have like 1st 2nd 3rd generation japanese even tho that means
1 jp + 1 mix > kid = 1st generation (1/2 jp)
1st gen + mix = 2nd gen (1/4 jp)
2nd Gen + mix = 3rd gen (1/8!! jp)
Yet they still consider themselves japanese.. they can get all full citizen paper back at nippon if they want to simply go back there..


Now since I was a bit bored.. you can read
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan2002/1012348094.Ge.r.html <(its fufufu no paragraphs sorry..)

tl;dr: simply gives a full description on HOW ITS POSSIBLE FOR ASIANS BE BLOND GREEN EYED! All that was written by a doctor and genesist

I wouldn't say totally impossible specially with TODAYS japan.. Err.. damn low probabilities? kinda like that, you will be struck by a meteor before you cross path with a natural blond japanese..

Edited by Irecinius, 17 March 2012 - 07:11 AM.

Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:51 AM

    Potato Sprout

#19
eye and hair color are polygenic traits so they don't display mendelian inheritance.

Edited by awdsone, 23 March 2012 - 06:25 PM.

Posted 23 March 2012 - 08:41 AM

    Baked Potato

#20

eye and hair color are polygenic traits so they don't display mendelian inheritance.


It's not that polygenic traits don't follow mendelian inheritance, it's just more complex. And we're talking about clear cut blonde here, not in-between shades of hair.

Edited by Saphsin, 04 April 2012 - 03:45 AM.

Posted 25 March 2012 - 11:18 PM

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"Once you label me you negate me." - Soren Kierkegaard

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